California Gov. Gavin Newsom said it’s “deeply unfair” for transgender girls and women to compete in female sports, breaking with fellow Democrats who have generally supported the ability of trans student athletes to play on school sports teams that align with their gender identities.
Newsom’s remarks were said in the debut episode of his podcast, “This Is Gavin Newsom,” which premiered Thursday and consisted of an 71-minute interview with conservative influencer Charlie Kirk, who opposes same-sex marriage and has said there is an “LGBTQ agenda.”
“I think it’s an issue of fairness, I completely agree with you on that,” Newsom told the Turning Point USA co-founder. “It is an issue of fairness — it’s deeply unfair.”
The governor’s comments followed Kirk asking if he would denounce the participation of a high school athlete in California who is reportedly trans and won the triple jump at a competition last month.
Newsom avoided answering the question directly, and, when Kirk said he could see Newsom “wrestling” with the issue, Newsom responded, “I am not wrestling with the fairness issue. I totally agree with you.”
Newsom later added that, out of the more than 500,000 college athletes in the NCAA, very few are trans, and he said trans inclusion in sports should be handled with “humility and grace.”
“These poor people are more likely to commit suicide, have anxiety and depression, and the way that people talk down to vulnerable communities is an issue that I have a hard time with as well,” Newsom said. “So both things I can hold in my hand. How can we address this issue with the kind of decency that I think, you know, is inherent in you, but not always expressed on the issue, but at the same time deal with the issue of fairness?”
The episode came out just days after Democrats in the Senate voted unanimously to block a bill that would have prohibited any federally funded athletic program, which would have included sports teams at all public schools and some private schools, from allowing trans girls and women to participate on female teams.
Newsom didn’t say whether he believes trans inclusion in sports is unfair in all instances or only at certain levels of competition. He did not immediately return a request for comment to elaborate on his remarks.
Toward the end of the lengthy interview, Kirk said the “trans stuff” is “an affront to all of our senses” and “out of control.”
“Americans increasingly believe that their good heartedness and charitable nature towards the LGBT issue has overblown, especially with youth sports, youth curriculum and the chemical castration of our kids,” Kirk said, using inflammatory language to refer to transition-related medical care.
He then encouraged the governor to learn about “some of the butchery under the guise of health care that is happening, under chemical castration, in this state and in other states” and added that Americans are “overwhelmingly against it.”
Newsom responded, “I think we have to be more sensitized to that.”
Polls show public opinion on laws restricting transition-related care for minors is mixed. One 2022 poll by Pew Research Center found that 46% of Americans support laws prohibiting gender-transition care for those under 18, while 31% oppose them. A 2023 poll by the Washington Post and KFF found that 68% of adults opposed puberty-blocking medication for those 10-14 and 58% opposed hormonal treatments for trans teens 15-17. A Gallup poll released last year found that just over a third of U.S. adults support laws banning transition-related care and more than 60% oppose them.
Kirk brought up the Cass report, an independent study commissioned by England’s National Health Service that found that medical evidence for transition-related care for minors was “remarkably weak.” The study has faced criticism from some researchers and activists.
Newsom responded, “I’m not an expert in this,” and Kirk added, “I’m saying politically, it’s a turbo-charged issue that is kicking the tail of Democrats.”
At the start of the episode, the pair also talked about an anti-trans ad that President Trump’s campaign ran against former Vice President Kamala Harris that ended with the line: “Kamala is for they/them; President Trump is for you.”
One of the ads criticized Harris’ past support for gender-affirming treatments for incarcerated trans people, which Kirk said Harris was “enthusiastically defending.” Newsom called the ad “effective,” “brutal” and “brilliant,” though he did not state his own views on such treatments.
Some trans people and LGBTQ advocates on social media felt betrayed by the governor, who has generally championed LGBTQ rights and signed legislation making California a refuge state for trans minors. The law prohibits medical providers from releasing medical information in response to an out-of-state subpoena, which protects parents from states where transition care is banned if they seek care for their children in California. It also protects parents from extradition if they move to California from states where transition-related care for minors is banned.
“When Newsom platforms someone like Charlie Kirk, he isn’t fostering a ‘discussion’ on transgender people in sports—he is handing a known hate monger a microphone to denigrate an already vulnerable community,” Erin Reed, a writer and trans advocate, wrote in her newsletter. “That’s the real objective. Newsom isn’t engaging in open dialogue or debate; he is recalibrating his political stance to make targeting transgender people seem palatable, selling that shift to his base as a strategic necessity.”
Newsom noted during the episode that he has been a leader on LGBTQ rights. For example, he defied state law as mayor of San Francisco when he issued marriage licenses to same-sex couples in 2004.
During the episode, he and Kirk got into a back-and-forth over a law Newsom signed that prohibits school districts from enacting policies that require California teachers to disclose a student’s sexual orientation, gender identity or gender expression to anyone without the student’s consent. It also protects teachers from being fired if they don’t disclose that information unless required by law.
Kirk characterized the law as prohibiting school districts from telling parents if their kids are trans, and Newsom responded, “No, they can. They just can’t get fired for not doing that.”
“I want these teachers to teach, and if they feel like the health or safety of the kid they have a responsibility to communicate that, they still can,” Newsom said.
Following his podcast’s debut, Newsom was criticized by some members of his own party.
Assemblymember Chris Ward and state Sen. Caroline Menjivar, who are chair and vice chair of the California Legislative LGBTQ Caucus, said in a statement that they “woke up profoundly sickened and frustrated” by Newsom’s remarks.
“All students deserve the academic and health benefits of sports activity, and until Donald Trump began obsessing about it, playing on a team consistent with one’s gender has not been a problem since the standard was passed in 2013,” they said, referring to a California law that allows trans students to play on the school sports teams that align with their gender identities.
